Tuesday, January 6, 2009

Book Review[MSN]

2008/12/30下午 10:10:13友君Sorry for late.

2008/12/30下午 10:11:08涵兒 加入對話。

2008/12/30下午 10:11:29蘇菲亞So that's start

2008/12/30下午 10:11:39友君Ok.

2008/12/30下午 10:11:49[ 耐心 patient] :)two hours discussing

2008/12/30下午 10:11:59涵兒ok~

2008/12/30下午 10:13:21[ 耐心 patient] :)so first of all

2008/12/30下午 10:13:31蘇菲亞As for me, I think that Chapter 18 "Writing about Film" is my favorite chapter

2008/12/30下午 10:13:54友君Me too.

2008/12/30下午 10:14:14友君And your report also impressed me.

2008/12/30下午 10:14:27[ 耐心 patient] :)MOVIE

2008/12/30下午 10:14:42蘇菲亞We could connect the chapter with "Understanding Movies"

2008/12/30下午 10:14:47涵兒It's good~

2008/12/30下午 10:14:52蘇菲亞Oh I am flattered

2008/12/30下午 10:15:22[ 耐心 patient] :)haha

2008/12/30下午 10:15:22[ 耐心 patient] :)I THINK

2008/12/30下午 10:16:02友君The clips you chose connect with our Film class.

2008/12/30下午 10:16:16友君Run Lora Run

2008/12/30下午 10:16:31涵兒When we are talking about movies, I think I would come up with Jerome Class~

2008/12/30下午 10:16:51[ 耐心 patient] :)or stewart

2008/12/30下午 10:17:08[ 耐心 patient] :)stewart also talks movie in the oral training class

2008/12/30下午 10:17:18涵兒It's impressive to see the same clips in different classes!

2008/12/30下午 10:18:40友君And analyze the photography. Just like what we do on Jerome's class.

2008/12/30下午 10:19:28[ 耐心 patient] :)but can't put more emphasis on movie

2008/12/30下午 10:20:28友君Yes. I think we can talk about some writing skill in the text book.

2008/12/30下午 10:21:29涵兒Our group is talking about "Writing about Literature".

2008/12/30下午 10:22:25友君There are some things have to do when we are going to write or analyze the literature work.

2008/12/30下午 10:22:41涵兒I think it also applies to our reading in English or American literature.

2008/12/30下午 10:23:22友君We need to know what the author wants to express first.

2008/12/30下午 10:23:38友君and provide our own interpretation.2008/12/30下午 10:24:54蘇菲亞Yes, and that's really important, too

2008/12/30下午 10:24:54[ 耐心 patient] :)i think we can list some important writing skills

2008/12/30下午 10:25:02[ 耐心 patient] :)yeah

2008/12/30下午 10:25:04友君Ok.

2008/12/30下午 10:25:49[ 耐心 patient] :) 

2008/12/30下午 10:26:10友君Recongnize your purpose.

2008/12/30下午 10:27:34友君The first main point in chapter 11 and chapter 12. (Description and Narration)

2008/12/30下午 10:28:35涵兒Put your purpose under arrangement

2008/12/30下午 10:28:45[ 耐心 patient] :)yeah the writing skil

l2008/12/30下午 10:29:26[ 耐心 patient] :)argumentation2008/12/30下午 10:29:26[ 耐心 patient] :)decription

2008/12/30下午 10:29:46蘇菲亞By the way, we have to know who are the readers2008/12/30下午 10:30:27涵兒To interest the readers~

2008/12/30下午 10:30:37涵兒with your own topic!

2008/12/30下午 10:30:50友君You need to make your readers be convinced.

2008/12/30下午 10:32:02友君Some experiences can support your perspective.

2008/12/30下午 10:33:38蘇菲亞You are right

2008/12/30下午 10:34:08[ 耐心 patient] :)so we have to divide our paper in many parts

2008/12/30下午 10:34:18蘇菲亞So we have to choose our subject carefully

2008/12/30下午 10:36:22友君Also, choose to describe things in objective or subjective way.

2008/12/30下午 10:37:15涵兒And supporting our ideas with some research.

2008/12/30下午 10:37:29[ 耐心 patient] :)yeah

2008/12/30下午 10:37:44[ 耐心 patient] :)and try to convince audieance

2008/12/30下午 10:37:49[ 耐心 patient] :)audience

2008/12/30下午 10:38:29蘇菲亞you really did point out the point

2008/12/30下午 10:38:40友君Make readers see what you have found out and feel as your feeling.

2008/12/30下午 10:39:26蘇菲亞Yeah, things that can move us can have stonger impact in our heart

2008/12/30下午 10:39:47蘇菲亞It's just like Approach to American Literature

2008/12/30下午 10:39:57蘇菲亞HAHA

2008/12/30下午 10:40:17[ 耐心 patient] :)and oral training

2008/12/30下午 10:40:26[ 耐心 patient] :)gee gee2008/12/30下午 10:41:11涵兒Yup~

2008/12/30下午 10:41:11友君HA~The same skills can be used in all the classes.

2008/12/30下午 10:43:27蘇菲亞hA

2008/12/30下午 10:43:37[ 耐心 patient] :)剛剛斷線

2008/12/30下午 10:43:47涵兒That's OK :)

2008/12/30下午 10:43:47蘇菲亞THAT'S OK2008/12/30下午 10:43:57蘇菲亞WE DON'T CARE THAT MUCH


2008/12/30下午 10:43:57蘇菲亞HAHA2008/12/30下午 10:45:45友君Besides, we can make our essays vivid by using sensory details.

2008/12/30下午 10:46:06[ 耐心 patient] :)yeah

2008/12/30下午 10:46:16[ 耐心 patient] :)tha;t the description2008/12/30下午 10:46:25友君Sight, hearing, smell...

2008/12/30下午 10:46:25[ 耐心 patient] :)the chapter i report2008/12/30下午 10:46:25[ 耐心 patient] :)= =

2008/12/30下午 10:46:52涵兒YA

2008/12/30下午 10:47:17[ 耐心 patient] :)so it's the writting skill

2008/12/30下午 10:48:39友君Always asking "WHY" is also important

2008/12/30下午 10:48:44涵兒And with some logic in writting skills.

2008/12/30下午 10:48:54蘇菲亞After finishing writing the articles, we have to revise them.

2008/12/30下午 10:49:04蘇菲亞"Ask Why"2008/12/30下午 10:49:25蘇菲亞can be related to the Accounting class XD

2008/12/30下午 10:49:45[ 耐心 patient] :)so that;s the chapter 5

2008/12/30下午 10:50:40蘇菲亞1. What is the most interesting part and persuasive point in your essay.

2008/12/30下午 10:50:54友君It is also needed when we are reading a story or poem.

2008/12/30下午 10:51:04蘇菲亞2.Is your topic too broad or too narrow

2008/12/30下午 10:51:29蘇菲亞3. What aspects might need more work2008/12/30下午 10:51:44蘇菲亞4.Does specific idea support your idea

2008/12/30下午 10:51:59蘇菲亞Give out your position

2008/12/30下午 10:52:09蘇菲亞That's what we have to check out

2008/12/30下午 10:52:24蘇菲亞I agree your point

2008/12/30下午 10:52:29涵兒Yup.

2008/12/30下午 10:52:49蘇菲亞All of the writing skill could be used in different types of writing

2008/12/30下午 10:53:05友君Yeah. You listed the points we should pay attention to.

2008/12/30下午 10:53:41涵兒After writing, we also need to revise~

2008/12/30下午 10:55:03友君How to organize your essay effectively is significant.

2008/12/30下午 10:55:03涵兒Many problems in sentence clarity involve errors in grammar, punctuation, word choice and usage.

2008/12/30下午 10:55:55友君Sometimes the readers might have trouble to understand.

2008/12/30下午 10:56:31涵兒1. Give your sentences content.

2008/12/30下午 10:57:02涵兒2. Make your sentences specific.

2008/12/30下午 10:57:33涵兒3. Avoid overpacking your sentences.

2008/12/30下午 10:57:53涵兒4. Fix fragments

2008/12/30下午 10:58:14涵兒5. Pay attention to word order.

2008/12/30下午 10:59:05涵兒This is the important points in Chapter 6.

2008/12/30下午 10:59:35[ 耐心 patient] :)yeah

2008/12/30下午 10:59:54[ 耐心 patient] :)so it seems that we have lots of things to talk

2008/12/30下午 11:00:12友君That is talking about how to make our meanings clear in each sentences.

2008/12/30下午 11:00:48蘇菲亞yes

2008/12/30下午 11:00:48涵兒I think developing a concise style is also important~

2008/12/30下午 11:00:58蘇菲亞tha's true

2008/12/30下午 11:02:45友君It is necessary to build argument when we are writing.

2008/12/30下午 11:03:45友君Explore the possibilities and your opinions.

2008/12/30下午 11:04:11友君Anticipate opposing views.

2008/12/30下午 11:04:56涵兒The classmates' comments are also very helpful~

2008/12/30下午 11:05:41蘇菲亞In chapter 10 for example, when writing an argumentation esay, we have to use "appropriate tone"

2008/12/30下午 11:05:41友君Just like what Claire and I do. We have different standpoint toward abortion.

2008/12/30下午 11:05:57蘇菲亞yeah

2008/12/30下午 11:06:07[ 耐心 patient] :)yeah

2008/12/30下午 11:06:17蘇菲亞different people can find out one another's weak
point

2008/12/30下午 11:06:27蘇菲亞they could offer us some precious opinion

2008/12/30下午 11:07:18涵兒Yup~

2008/12/30下午 11:07:35友君And we also have to fight with each other to strengthen our viewpoint.2008/12/30下午 11:09:27蘇菲亞that;s right

2008/12/30下午 11:09:47涵兒Others' pointview can complement our views.

2008/12/30下午 11:09:57[ 耐心 patient] :)fight with othersXD

2008/12/30下午 11:10:21友君The point of view.

2008/12/30下午 11:10:28涵兒I usually fight with Elsa in the dorm. XXD2008/12/30下午 11:10:43[ 耐心 patient] :)XDD

2008/12/30下午 11:10:53蘇菲亞cool

2008/12/30下午 11:10:54友君No. That's not true~~~~2008/12/30下午 11:11:03友君Haha

2008/12/30下午 11:11:13涵兒Since both of us are making the same topic.

2008/12/30下午 11:11:23蘇菲亞I would so much like to hit my room mates

2008/12/30下午 11:11:44涵兒Ha~~

2008/12/30下午 11:11:54蘇菲亞by discussing your topics, I think you can really get some new ideas

2008/12/30下午 11:12:04蘇菲亞new concept2008/12/30下午 11:12:35[ 耐心 patient] :)YEAH

2008/12/30下午 11:12:45[ 耐心 patient] :)i agree with it

2008/12/30下午 11:13:05蘇菲亞seeing the opposite point of views, you can find ways to "fight" back people that's in different position

2008/12/30下午 11:13:14[ 耐心 patient] :)and other people will also give you advice

2008/12/30下午 11:13:36友君Yeah.

2008/12/30下午 11:14:55友君Maybe we can talk about some problems should be avoid.

2008/12/30下午 11:15:36[ 耐心 patient] :)grammar false

2008/12/30下午 11:15:56[ 耐心 patient] :)unorganized article

2008/12/30下午 11:16:17涵兒wrong word choice.2008/12/30下午 11:16:41友君Sudden change in perspective.

2008/12/30下午 11:19:13蘇菲亞Chapter20

2008/12/30下午 11:19:43蘇菲亞It also pointed out some problems about errors in grammar

2008/12/30下午 11:20:03[ 耐心 patient] :)yap

2008/12/30下午 11:20:43蘇菲亞In Chapter 21,also, talks of the importance of using punctuation

2008/12/30下午 11:20:58涵兒Yes~

2008/12/30下午 11:21:03蘇菲亞that's also the problems we should avoid2008/12/30下午 11:21:13涵兒It does help~

2008/12/30下午 11:22:01友君Yes. It is the basic problems we should pay attention to.

2008/12/30下午 11:22:47涵兒But after getting lots of information in writing skills, I think when I start to write something, I still lose some points.

2008/12/30下午 11:24:02友君It is hard to achieve all the points, so we have to learn and revise.

2008/12/30下午 11:24:47涵兒Revising is important:)

2008/12/30下午 11:27:01[ 耐心 patient] :)so we need to overcome these obstacles

2008/12/30下午 11:27:30友君The order of time and space the transitional words are needed to be consider. (Chapter 3)

2008/12/30下午 11:28:25友君Repetition of key words~

2008/12/30下午 11:29:05友君When we arrange the paragraphs2008/12/30下午 11:31:10涵兒To present a clear thesis.

2008/12/30下午 11:37:16友君The beginnings and endings are the main factors to attract the readers.

2008/12/30下午 11:38:28涵兒Mmmm.....

2008/12/30下午 11:38:58蘇菲亞YES

2008/12/30下午 11:39:19[ 耐心 patient] :)YEAH

2008/12/30下午 11:39:19涵兒Don't introduce new points or irrelevant material.

2008/12/30下午 11:39:29[ 耐心 patient] :)you guys really point out many ideas

2008/12/30下午 11:39:50[ 耐心 patient] :)but we think we need to organized them

2008/12/30下午 11:40:53友君Ok.2008/12/30下午 11:41:19涵兒Yup~

2008/12/30下午 11:42:39蘇菲亞oh2008/12/30下午 11:42:39蘇菲亞by the way

2008/12/30下午 11:42:50蘇菲亞I THINK THAT2008/12/30下午 11:43:30蘇菲亞Chapter 14 is really important

2008/12/30下午 11:43:50[ 耐心 patient] :)YEAH2008/12/30下午 11:43:57蘇菲亞I learned the style this semester

2008/12/30下午 11:44:03[ 耐心 patient] :)that's what teacher focus on2008/12/30下午 11:44:07[ 耐心 patient] :)why

2008/12/30下午 11:44:07[ 耐心 patient] :)= =

2008/12/30下午 11:44:12蘇菲亞before, I would just post the website

2008/12/30下午 11:44:22涵兒Ok~

2008/12/30下午 11:44:27蘇菲亞or simply paste the name of the author

2008/12/30下午 11:44:43蘇菲亞and would not do it in the rigt form

2008/12/30下午 11:45:32友君It is also important to search the online databases with concise keyword.2008/12/30下午 11:45:58涵兒It's important to have work cited.

2008/12/30下午 11:47:02友君I usually ignored the citation in the past, too.

2008/12/30下午 11:48:08涵兒It's easy to forget ="=

2008/12/30下午 11:49:18[ 耐心 patient] :)haha

2008/12/30下午 11:49:38[ 耐心 patient] :)take advantage of the websites

2008/12/30下午 11:49:49[ 耐心 patient] :)the digital resourses

2008/12/30下午 11:50:59蘇菲亞yeah2008/12/30下午 11:51:40蘇菲亞So shall we start to organize our conversation

2008/12/30下午 11:53:09涵兒YA

2008/12/30下午 11:53:20[ 耐心 patient] :)ok2008/12/30下午 11:53:30蘇菲亞First of all, we have to discover our writing. We have to change our style of writing and the form of composing our works so as to meet different readers request.

2008/12/30下午 11:54:19蘇菲亞Organize our writings with clear thesis statement, and remenber do not be vague in the writing.

2008/12/30下午 11:55:09涵兒We can make our paper better by revising.2008/12/30下午 11:55:19蘇菲亞Pay attention to our writings by using precise words and punctuation.

2008/12/30下午 11:55:28友君Avoid grammar and puntuation problems.

2008/12/30下午 11:55:38蘇菲亞Do not confuse the readers.2008/12/30下午 11:56:15蘇菲亞Class discussion is also important. We can talk with our friends about our topics.
2008/12/30下午 11:56:45蘇菲亞Everyone of us may point out the strong and weak point of our works.2008/12/30下午 11:57:05友君Organize each paragraph logically. Make the argument and your interpretation clearly.

2008/12/30下午 11:57:21[ 耐心 patient] :)yeap

2008/12/30下午 11:57:56[ 耐心 patient] :)so let's divide our discussion into many parts2008/12/30下午 11:58:47[ 耐心 patient] :)first, the general ideas about this book?? whcih parts affect you the most2008/12/31上午 12:01:05友君Some general ideas have mentioned before.

2008/12/31上午 12:01:10涵兒I think the book gives me a useful skills about writing; And I think all of the parts are essential for me to develop the issue. Different parts focus on different skills.

2008/12/31上午 12:02:21蘇菲亞Later on could we compose our 500 words of book review by using some of the sentences in our conversation?
2008/12/31上午 12:02:52蘇菲亞Or shall we write the entire one with different styles and ways?2008/12/31上午 12:03:02[ 耐心 patient] :)so do we need to distribute these jobs2008/12/31上午 12:04:02涵兒Maybe it works.

2008/12/31上午 12:04:33[ 耐心 patient] :)or we need to find someone to puzzle our discussion up

2008/12/31上午 12:06:05友君I do not know what the teacher wants...

2008/12/31上午 12:06:30[ 耐心 patient] :)haha

2008/12/31上午 12:07:01涵兒Me, either.....

2008/12/31上午 12:07:11[ 耐心 patient] :)XDD

2008/12/31上午 12:07:48蘇菲亞She wants us to introduce the book

2008/12/31上午 12:08:08蘇菲亞and point out what's our favorite part of the book.

2008/12/31上午 12:08:18蘇菲亞so how shall we divide our work?

2008/12/31上午 12:09:08[ 耐心 patient] :)OK

2008/12/31上午 12:09:44[ 耐心 patient] :)first, who is responsible to make a concise introduction of this book?

2008/12/31上午 12:09:54[ 耐心 patient] :)and then

2008/12/31上午 12:10:15[ 耐心 patient] :)some people do the middle parts

2008/12/31上午 12:10:25[ 耐心 patient] :)what are our favorite parts

2008/12/31上午 12:10:35[ 耐心 patient] :)this can use our diologues2008/12/31上午 12:10:59[ 耐心 patient] :)what do you think about

2008/12/31上午 12:12:24蘇菲亞Or we could compose it with the dialogue over here?

2008/12/31上午 12:12:49[ 耐心 patient] :)can we?

2008/12/31上午 12:13:04蘇菲亞I don't think it is a good idea to separate one article into four parts

2008/12/31上午 12:13:19涵兒Yes~

2008/12/31上午 12:13:22友君I think we can take advantage of the dialogues.2008/12/31上午 12:14:18友君and write the chapter we liked

2008/12/31上午 12:15:21[ 耐心 patient] :)yeah2008/12/31上午 12:15:31涵兒OK

2008/12/31上午 12:15:31[ 耐心 patient] :)this mentioned beforeXD

2008/12/31上午 12:15:42友君We can write the introduction, our favorite and impressed chapters, and then what we have used in our paper.

2008/12/31上午 12:16:07[ 耐心 patient] :)YEAH

2008/12/31上午 12:16:50涵兒OK//

2008/12/31上午 12:18:46友君Do you mean that we have to introduce some main points in each chapter? Each one provide introduction of some chapters?

2008/12/31上午 12:19:41涵兒I agree.

2008/12/31上午 12:20:12友君So~

2008/12/31上午 12:20:27蘇菲亞So~

2008/12/31上午 12:20:27[ 耐心 patient] :)the generanl introduction of this book

2008/12/31上午 12:20:37[ 耐心 patient] :)genearl introduction

2008/12/31上午 12:20:48蘇菲亞I can organize that in the papers

2008/12/31上午 12:21:08[ 耐心 patient] :)just like you need to introduce this book to other people

2008/12/31上午 12:21:08蘇菲亞by means of the dialogue

2008/12/31上午 12:21:18蘇菲亞and I would send them to one of you2008/12/31上午 12:21:18涵兒That's all?

2008/12/31上午 12:21:28蘇菲亞and then send it to the third people

2008/12/31上午 12:21:34蘇菲亞and to the forth

2008/12/31上午 12:21:39蘇菲亞how about that

2008/12/31上午 12:21:51友君I think I can do that part myself

2008/12/31上午 12:22:16[ 耐心 patient] :)蘇菲亞 說 (上午 12:04): She wants us to introduce the book 蘇菲亞 說 (上午 12:04): and point out what's our favorite part of the book.

2008/12/31上午 12:22:16涵兒So?

2008/12/31上午 12:22:25[ 耐心 patient] :)ok

2008/12/31上午 12:22:34友君Ok

2008/12/31上午 12:23:39蘇菲亞what2008/12/31上午 12:23:39蘇菲亞?2008/12/31上午 12:23:59蘇菲亞so we would do the separate part?

2008/12/31上午 12:24:10蘇菲亞so who is going to combine ti

2008/12/31上午 12:24:10蘇菲亞it2008/12/31上午 12:26:31友君We need to have the same introduction?

2008/12/31上午 12:26:59[ 耐心 patient] :)the generanl introduction of this book

2008/12/31上午 12:27:06友君Sorry, I do not know what I should do now

2008/12/31上午 12:27:12蘇菲亞I will do that

2008/12/31上午 12:27:42[ 耐心 patient] :)just like you need to introduce this book to other people2008/12/31上午 12:29:02涵兒OH~2008/12/31上午 12:29:02蘇菲亞==

2008/12/31上午 12:29:22蘇菲亞only a person need to do that2008/12/31上午 12:29:31友君Ok

2008/12/31上午 12:30:47[ 耐心 patient] :)sopia will be responsible for the introduction2008/12/31上午 12:31:11友君Thank you.

2008/12/31上午 12:31:42[ 耐心 patient] :)then we need two person to organize our diologue

2008/12/31上午 12:31:51[ 耐心 patient] :)and do the middle part

2008/12/31上午 12:32:06蘇菲亞to form the introduction?2008/12/31上午 12:32:26[ 耐心 patient] :)explain some chapter that you think important

2008/12/31上午 12:32:30友君Ok. Claire and I can take it

2008/12/31上午 12:32:55[ 耐心 patient] :)ok

2008/12/31上午 12:33:05[ 耐心 patient] :)then i will do ....??

2008/12/31上午 12:33:05[ 耐心 patient] :)haha

2008/12/31上午 12:33:35蘇菲亞you can form the introduction with me

2008/12/31上午 12:33:46蘇菲亞o k

2008/12/31上午 12:33:46蘇菲亞?

2008/12/31上午 12:34:06[ 耐心 patient] :)Ok2008/12/31上午 12:34:06涵兒OK~

2008/12/31上午 12:34:06[ 耐心 patient] :)deal'

2008/12/31上午 12:34:16[ 耐心 patient] :)good2008/12/31上午 12:34:16涵兒thanks you:D

2008/12/31上午 12:34:16[ 耐心 patient] :)it's close to the end

2008/12/31上午 12:34:27[ 耐心 patient] :)so touching

2008/12/31上午 12:34:37[ 耐心 patient] :)T^T2008/12/31上午 12:34:37涵兒The End YA

2008/12/31上午 12:34:57蘇菲亞More than hours2008/12/31上午 12:34:57蘇菲亞haha

2008/12/31上午 12:35:07[ 耐心 patient] :)AND

2008/12/31上午 12:35:17[ 耐心 patient] :)after we finish our parts

2008/12/31上午 12:35:28[ 耐心 patient] :)we need to organize again

2008/12/31上午 12:35:28涵兒囧

2008/12/31上午 12:35:38[ 耐心 patient] :)to make the article smooth

2008/12/31上午 12:35:48涵兒
/12/31上午 12:35:48[ 耐心 patient] :)and coherent

2008/12/31上午 12:36:08蘇菲亞when will you finish it?

2008/12/31上午 12:36:29涵兒Mmm....

2008/12/31上午 12:37:24友君I would put them on blog before 1/2

2008/12/31上午 12:37:39[ 耐心 patient] :)ok2008/12/31上午 12:37:50[ 耐心 patient] :)after we finish our parts

2008/12/31上午 12:38:00[ 耐心 patient] :)just put the blogger

2008/12/31上午 12:38:10[ 耐心 patient] :)and after the vacation2008/12/31上午 12:38:31[ 耐心 patient] :)we find some time to organize it

2008/12/31上午 12:38:41[ 耐心 patient] :)~the end~

2008/12/31上午 12:38:45[ 耐心 patient] :)yeah2008/12/31上午 12:38:48友君See you.

2008/12/31上午 12:38:51[ 耐心 patient] :)enjoy you vacation

2008/12/31上午 12:38:56[ 耐心 patient] :)happt new year2008/12/31上午 12:39:06[ 耐心 patient] :)哈哈哈哈哈

2008/12/31上午 12:39:36涵兒Happy New Year!

2008/12/31上午 12:40:07蘇菲亞Bye2008/12/31上午 12:40:17涵兒See you~

2008/12/31上午 12:40:28涵兒bye

2008/12/31上午 12:40:38[ 耐心 patient] :)bye

2008/12/31上午 12:41:08[ 耐心 patient] :)remember to put the diologue in your blogger

2008/12/31上午 12:41:19[ 耐心 patient] :)everyone needs it

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